讲座简介 Introduction of the talk
What is new music? When, where, why and how has it emerged?
New music is a new philosophy, new outlook, and new attitude towards any organization of sounds. It's a totally open, unprejudiced view of any piece of music where anything is possible. No conventions, no limitations. It is the music where any alien experiences welcome, where all influences are encouraged. The only thing that is taboo is clichés. This is the music that questions but doesn't give any answers. It is inclusive and not exclusive. It celebrates diversity while remaining true to itself. Since a great part of this music is improvised, the author and the performer merge into one personality. That is why the personality of the performer becomes so important. New music has emerged out of a protest - however, a protest of a special kind. It is neither political nor social. It is spiritual; it is a protest against hypocrisy and consumerism, against banality and conformity. No wonder that new music found such favorable soil in USA and some European countries, including Russia.
讲者简介 Introduction of the Speaker
Leo Feigin在1979年创办了Leo Records唱片公司，他同样也以广播艺名Aleksei Leonidov而闻名。他来自俄罗斯，后又移民到英国生活。在1970到1980年期间，Leo建立的唱片公司和世界著名Ganelin三重奏的联系尤其密切。
Leo Records旗下有四个子公司，包括Leo Records、Leo Lab (Leo Records Laboratory)、Golden Years of New Jazz和FeetFirst Records。
Leo Records was founded in 1979 by Leo Feigin, who also known under his broadcasting name Aleksei Leonidov, a Russian immigrant to Britain. The label was particularly associated with establishing the world reputation of the Ganelin Trio during the 1970s and 1980s.
Leo Records is an English jazz record label, which releases Russian jazz in addition to material from American and British musicians.
It is generally associated with more experimental releases. The label has a close relationship with the artists who release material on the label; it does not sign artists to contracts, but releases their material on a single-album basis. By 2010 there were over 700 titles in Leo Records catalogue. Leo Records comprises four labels: Leo Records, Leo Lab (Leo Records Laboratory), Golden Years of New Jazz, and FeetFirst Records.
Golden Years of Soviet New Jazz
讲者 Speaker：Leo Feigin / 现场翻译 Interpreter：李奇 Archie / 时间 Date：2014.10.21
各位朋友，欢迎您来到旧天堂书店。今晚是第四届OCT-LOFT国际爵士音乐节第14晚，即将举行是《苏联新爵士黄金年代》讲座及放映，主讲人为Leo Feigin，来自Leo Records。讲座语言为英文，现场配有翻译，翻译者为李奇。
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Old Heaven Books. Tonight is the 14th night of OCT-LOFT Jazz Festival. We’ll be honored to have the lecture “Golden Years of Soviet New Jazz” and the speaker will be Leo Feigin from Leo Records. Leo will speak in English and Archie will be his English-Chinese interpreter.
讲座中将放映两部关于俄罗斯新音乐的纪录短片，分别是《Sergey Kuryokhin与Pop Mechanics：天赋的疯狂》和《俄罗斯新音乐之父：Slava Ganelin》。
After the lecture we will watch two short documentary movies of Soviet New Music. One is “Sergey Kuryokhin & Pop Mechanics - Divine Madness” and the other is “Slava Ganelin - Father of Russian New Music”.
Now, let’s welcome Leo Feigin! Firstly, let’s watch a short introduction video about Leo Feigin.
视频 Video：Leo Feigin介绍短片（Introduction of Leo Feigin）
Good Evening. I’m very sorry that I don’t speak Chinese, but I have a very able translator, Archie, there he is. So he will help me. Now you know everything about me but I know nothing about you. But with the time, maybe I shall come to know you, as the evening progresses.
我们今天在这里是想要谈谈新音乐，尤其是苏联及俄罗斯的新音乐。但在话题开启之前，我首先想说的是，我不是一个音乐人，我也不是音乐的学者，我甚少阅读关于音乐的书籍，甚至可以说我在音乐方面是非常无知的，但是，我有我自己的见解。因此，我建议大家接下来在听我说话的时候，抱持一种批判的态度。你们最好时刻问自己：“这老头到底在说什么啊？”在英语里我们常称之为“take it with a pinch of salt”，也就是你们对我说的不能全然相信，而应保有一种半信半疑的态度。
OK, we are here to talk about New Music and about Soviet and Russian New Music. But the first thing I want to say is that I’m not a musician, I didn’t study music, I read very few books about music, and I’m very ignorant about music. But I have my own opinion. And I suggest you have to listen to me critically. You have to ask yourself all the time:“What is this man talking about?” In English it means that you should take it with a pinch of salt.
OK, If you look at a human body, you can divide it into three parts. The first part is from the feet up to here (waist); the second part is from the waist up to here (neck); and the third part is the rest (head). So there is a kind of music that appeals to this lower part. And what you get? You get pop, rock music. There is some kind of music that appeals to the higher part, somewhere here (heart). And in this case, you’ll have feelings. You have music like Jazz. This music maybe has a little bit from there (lower part) and maybe a little bit from there (head). But when you have music which doesn’t appeal to the lower part and doesn’t appeal to this part (heart), it appeals to this part (head) only, and in this case, you have music like maybe classical, avant-garde, maybe opera. The music appeals to here (head), has nothing to do with music that appeals to there (lower part). This (head) and this (heart), they can come in contact. But this (head) and this (low part), no.
And now we come to a different question. If we talk about jazz, we can say that… well, of course we all love it. We like to sit, to sing. We like to listen it, you know, to listen to the rhythm and everything. But this music is closed because it has limitation. It has rhythm. It has tonality. It has harmony. It has swing… And when a musician plays this music, he can’t introduce anything else, because a musician has to play in this rhythm, in this tonality, in this harmony, so he is in a closed system. He can’t get out from it.
And here we come to what is called New Music. What is New Music? New Music is the music which has no limitations. No rhythm, no harmony, no tonality, no swing. Everything is possible. Everything is open. That’s why we say that this is an open music. Maybe it will be difficult for someone who is not experienced. It’s difficult to understand what New Music is because again, it has no rhythm, no tonality, no harmony, very much depends on what you have listened before, on your listening experience.
If you look at the history of jazz in the Soviet Union, you will see that for many years, year after year after year, jazz musicians copied Americans. And maybe they were as good as the Americans, maybe even better, but they were playing not their own music, but copying someone else’s music. Here we come to the point when in the beginning of the 70s, there appeared one group in the the Soviet Union which didn’t want to copy Americans and they started to play their own music. This is the beginning of the new era of New Music in the Soviet Union. The father of this New Music, the person who was the first to start to play this New Music was Slava Ganelin whom you will hear in tomorrow’s concert.
Well, that’s the basic introduction.
It was not easy to play this music 30 years ago, because it was very new and it had very small audience. But with the time, the audience was getting better and bigger and there were many musicians who started playing this music.
今天你们会看到两部影片，其实这个系列影片一共有十部。这些电影是在八十年代末期，大概1989、1990年拍摄制作的，而且那是一个非常特殊的时期——苏维埃的边界正是在那时向世界豁然敞开，当时的总统戈尔巴乔夫促成了这件事。在那样一个时期，我和我的制作人同事一起去苏维埃拍摄制作了这些电影。你们一会儿会看到关于Sergey Kuryokhin和Slava Ganelin的这两部电影。为什么选择了这两部而不是其他的呢？因为这两部能够让你们感受到前苏联当时的境况，并且你会理解一个音乐人开始创造自己的音乐而不再一味模仿到底意味着什么。
Today, you will see maybe two films. Maybe I should tell you, there are actually ten films. So, these films were made in the end of 80’s, 1989, 1990. And they were made when all of a sudden, the boarder of the Soviet Union was open. It was President Gorbachev who open the boarder and this was when we… I say we, meaning me and my producer, we went to the Soviet Union to make these films. So you will see the films about Sergey Kuryokhin and about Slava Ganelin. Why those two films but not the others? Because they will give you an idea of what was happening in the Soviet Union at that time. And you will see what it means when a musician plays his own music when he is not coping or aping Americans.
当时有两位音乐风格截然不同的艺术家，他们分别是来自列宁格勒的Sergey Kuryokhin和来自维尔纽斯的Slava Ganelin，但他们都代表了当时前苏联音乐的面貌。
So there was these two different artists, Sergey Kuryokhin in Leningrad, Slava Ganelin in Vilnius. They played very different music. And yet these two groups they represented what was happening in the Soviet Union at that time.
There is only one thing in common between jazz and New Music and that is improvisation. You can think about New Music that it’s all improvised, from the beginning to the end, while in jazz you have only a small part. You have to improvise on the theme which you play and again, you’re limited. Even in your improvisation, you’re limited. When we talk about New Music, in reality it’s not new. It is just called New Music, but it has many names. You can call it experimental, improvised…ah, what else do you call it? You can call it free jazz, avant-garde. So this music actually… they say that this music started in 1966, when Ornette Coleman brought two groups together and started just playing without any preconceived ideas. But that was more than 50 years ago. So New Music in reality is old. But it gives us a chance to see the personality of a musician. The personality of a musician is very important because you can’t play New Music without personality. It’s not jazz. You must have a personality. You must be able to say something. That is “you”! And if there is no personality, there is no “you”, there is nothing to say.
那么观看这两部影片还有什么重要的事情需要注意呢？不要忘了，他们是在一个非常封闭的社会里演奏这种音乐的。这种音乐并不被当局所鼓励，甚至说，演奏它是非常危险的，因为它完全没有被官方认可。当你观看Sergey Kuryokhin的那部影片时，你要知道这种音乐是在一个完全地下的环境中发芽的，并且Sergey Kuryokhin的音乐概念具有强烈的原创性。这样说因为……好吧，他没有模仿任何人，那是他的音乐，而不是任何其他人的。也正因如此，没人可以复制他的音乐。对于The Ganelin Trio（加列宁三重奏）来说，也同样如此。他们创造了一种无法被复制的音乐。前无古人，后无来者。
So what else is important when you watch these films? Do not forget that this music was played in a very closed society. This music was not encouraged by the authorities and it was even dangerous to play this music because it was not officially recognized. When you watch the film about Sergey Kuryokhin, you must know that this music started in the total underground and the idea of Sergey Kuryokhin was very original, because…OK, he didn’t copy anyone so the music was original, it was his music but nobody else’s. And because his music was original, nobody could copy him. The same applies to The Ganelin Trio. They played the music which could not be copied. Nobody could do it.
这种音乐最开始是在地下成长的，而后来也逐渐浮上地面。Sergey Kuryokhin有一个名为“Popular Mechanics(Pop Mekhanika)”的演出项目或者说组合，他的理念特别在于他决定邀请他的各种朋友跨刀，并不一定是音乐家，可以是艺术家、画家等等。他开始把这个演出项目搬上舞台，而每场演出都全然不同。每一场演出都无法被复制，因为每一次参与的人都不同。到后来，他开始接收到不少来自西方国家的邀请，而他也为这个组合加入了更丰富的元素，可以说是穷其可能！比如各种动物……在很多场演出上有诸如马，牛，鹅——对，它们就那样在舞台上飞来飞去……还有坦克！在斯德哥尔摩的一次演出中他搞来了一台坦克，所以那时候“Pop Mekhanika”在坦克上进行了一次户外演出！
So this music in the Soviet Union which was played underground and very gradually it got outside. And the idea of Sergey Kuryokhin and his show, his group which was called “Popular Mechanics(Pop Mekhanika)”, was that he decided to bring together all his friends, not necessarily musicians. They were artists, painters… and he started producing this show and every show was different. Every show could not be repeated because very different people took part every time he performed his “Pop Mekhanika”. And with the time, since he started to get invitation to perform in the west, he used to bring to his group, to his show, everything that was possible. Animals…on many shows there were horses, cows, geese, they were flying on the stage… and tanks! He was performing in Stockholm and he managed to get a tank. So “Pop Mekhanika” was in the open on a tank!
如果说Sergey Kuryokhin是新音乐这头“巨怪”的其中一面，那么在它的另一面就是Slava Ganelin，创造着与他完全不同却同样极具个人风格的音乐。由于Slava后来去了以色列，The Ganelin Trio解散了。而在这段没有搭档的孤独时期，他带来了一个全新的、非常原创的概念——他成为了“一个人的交响乐团”。他演奏了……我都数不清了，他演奏了太多的乐器。他演奏钢琴、合成器、扬琴、鼓……总而言之，这就是他独创的概念——“一个人的交响乐团”。或许你们在今天或明天可以一窥其真容。
So that was one side of the huge specter of New Music while Slava Ganelin was on the other side, producing utterly original music of his own. And when The Ganelin Trio fell apart because Slava went to Israel. Well, he found himself without his partners. He was alone and he introduced a new, a very original concept: he became “one-man-orchestra”. And he plays…ah…I don’t know, he plays lots of instruments. He plays the piano of course, and synthesizer, dulcimer, drums. ..So it is his kind of new concept - “one-man-orchestra”. Maybe you will see a small part of it tomorrow, or maybe today.
而现在，距离当时已经过去了三十年。在曾经的苏维埃，现在的俄罗斯，新一代演奏新音乐的年轻音乐人正在崛起，其中最杰出的代表，就是Alexey Kruglov和Oleg Yodanov。你们也将在明晚的演出中看到他们，而最值得一提的是，这两代音乐人将在一起演奏。
Well, now it’s been thirty years, and in the Soviet Union - what was Soviet Union, in Russia-there is a new generation of musicians who play this New Music. Some of the best representatives of this music are Alexey Kruglov and Oleg Yodanov. And you will see them tomorrow as well. But what is happening is that the first generation is playing with the second generation. They play together now.
I think that it’s reasonable to stop now and tell you that maybe if you have some questions, I shall try to answer. Maybe you will see the film and maybe after that you will have some questions. So let’s start.
Are you still alive? (laugh) Ok, maybe now you have some questions, maybe about what you saw.
观众1 Audience 1：
Thank you, Leo. Thank you for telling us what New Music is. But I think New Music is crazy, right? I still can not understand it…I was wondering that even though the concert was all improvisation, who was the one to set the theme? Was the theme decided during the concert or was it rehearsed before?
这是一个非常好的问题。你可能已经注意到了，这部影片的名字是《天赋的疯狂（Divine Madness）》。它本身就是一场疯狂的表演！或许Kuryokhin所呈现出来的就是他当下的感受。然后“天赋的疯狂”这个词组是来自于一篇演出后的乐评，一个英国的乐评人写下了这个词。当然，这并不是一种非常典型的新音乐。但这部影片向你展示的，是在当时的苏联上演的这样一场演出。它并不是那么地着重于新音乐，就如你所看到的，它更像一场时尚秀，各种古怪的东西都聚集在舞台上，并且所有的事件都在同时发生。但当然，就音乐性而言，它并不是非常具有代表性的新音乐。或许在你看完Slava Ganelin的影片之后，你会对新音乐有个更好的理解。因为他们两位站在全然不同的两个角度，在他们这两极之间，还有许多其他的音乐和故事。
It’s a very good question. But you probably noticed that the film is called “Divine Madness”. It was a mad show! Because at that time maybe Kuryokhin felt like this. And this phrase “Divine Madness” it was a title of a review after this performance. One English critic wrote “Divine Madness”. Of course it is not very typical of New Music. But this film shows you the event that was happening in the Soviet Union. It was not so much about New Music, as it was, you saw it, a fashion show, some strange things on the stage and these events were happening at the same time. But of course, musically, it wasn’t very representative of New Music. Maybe when you see the film about Slava Ganelin, you will get a better idea of New Music. Because they are on different, completely different angles and in between there’s a lot of other music, a lot of other events.
听众1 Audience 1：
I have another question. I have a friend in Beijing doing this kind of music called “noise” and he is able to go to London to perform. But the shows are all underground. A lot of people in China don’t appreciate this music, including me. I think this kind of music is hard both to play and to enjoy. And I wonder how do they co-operate with each other in the band? And how do they express the theme? And how should we enjoy it? There’s also a problem about cultural differences. Just like this Russian movie you played just now, I didn’t quite get it.
Well, to begin with, New Music can also be good and bad. So the show in England your friend went, we don’t know what kind of show it is. But there are very very good performances of New Music. And there are also performances where nothing happens. When people try to create something together, sometimes it just doesn’t happen. Even with very good musicians it does not happen every time. Sometime it happens, sometime it doesn’t.
但是我应该跟你讲一个小故事。每年在英国广播电台都会有一档连续三集的节目，BBC邀请名家来做讲座。他们邀请的可能是物理学家、医生、音乐家或者别的领域的著名人物。节目的最后15分钟是提问环节。几年前，BBC邀请了Daniel Barenboim。他是一位非常非常著名的古典乐指挥家。我当时正好在我的厨房……那是一个早晨，我一边坐着吃着早餐一边听着节目。他讲到了音乐的方方面面，唯独一点除外——关于即兴音乐他只字未提。我当时就很纳闷，整整三期节目，一个字也不提，这可能吗？为什么竟然没有人对此提问？然而就在节目结束前的三分钟，一位英国非常著名的钢琴手提问了。他叫Julian Joseph，是一名黑人钢琴手。他问Barenboim：“您已经讲了三天了，却并未提到任何关于即兴音乐的东西，为什么会这样呢？”睿智的Barenboim回答道：“你要知道，即兴是音乐中最高、最顶级的层次。它是终极的成就。我无法去讲述它，我还没到那境界。”这就是这个故事
But I shall tell you a little story. In England, every year on British Radio, there’s a set of programs, three programs. BBC invites some very well-known person to give lectures. They invite maybe physicist, doctor, musician or someone else. This person gives a lecture to the audience and then there’s about 15 minutes for questions. Several years ago, BBC invited Daniel Barenboim. He is a very very famous conductor of classical music, very well-known. And I was listening to his lecture in my kitchen…it was in the morning, I was sitting, having breakfast. He was talking about all the aspect of music, except one — he didn’t say a word about improvisation. And I was thinking, is it possible that he, in all three lectures, not a word about improvisation? How come nobody ask a question? And literally three minutes before the end of the show, there was a question from a very well-known piano player in England. He is a black piano player, Julian Joseph. He said to Barenboim, “You’ve been speaking for three days but didn’t say a word about improvisation. How is it possible?” And the great mind Daniel Barenboim, he said, “You know, improvisation is the top, the very top of what can be achieved in music. It’s the ultimate. I can’t do it. I’m not good enough.” That’s the story.
观众1 Audience 1：
Ok, then I shall say several words about the next film. It’s about Slava Ganelin. As a music producer, I was influenced by his music and his ideas. His music helps me to formulate my philosophy. I became a record producer and I produced a lot of CDs, a lot of records.
In the beginning, I was telling you about three parts in the human body. Since then I was looking for only one thing. I was looking for a balance between this (head) and this (heart). I think it’s very difficult to find this balance, because 99% of it goes neither that way (lower part) or this way (head), but the balance is the most difficult thing. I think Ganelin’s music just hit the balance.
视频 Video：Slava Ganelin - Father of Russian New Music (《俄罗斯新音乐之父：Slava Ganelin》)
或者在你们思考要问我什么问题的时候，我该再和你们讲一些关于The Ganelin Trio的故事。他们为什么如此具有独创性呢？他们的演奏方式又究竟有什么特别呢？
Maybe while you’re thinking about the question, I shall tell you a little bit more about The Ganelin Trio. Why were they so original? What was so special about their way to play?
很多爵士乐手可能会每天都排练。他们每天都弹奏一样的东西，他们希望自己的音乐听起来更好。所以他们每天排练，也确乎有所长进。然而The Ganelin Trio则有一个完全不同的准则：演过的内容就绝不再重复！每当你站到舞台上，你就必须演奏新的东西！永远不要重复自己！因此，他们的音乐才如此的新，如此具有原创性，而他们的每一场演出也不可复制，独一无二。
If you look at jazz musicians, they may rehearse everyday. They are playing the same thing and they want to sound better. So every day they rehearse so that they seems to sound better. But The Ganelin Trio had another principle: never play the same thing twice! Every time you get on the stage, make it new! Never repeat yourself! So that was so new and so original. Then every performance of The Ganelin Trio was unrepeatable, was so unique.
另一方面，这个三重奏从来都不会仅仅是为了演奏而演奏。举个例子好了，有一些演奏新音乐的乐手他们从未谋面也能在一起演奏，他们一起试图创造一些新东西。但The Ganelin Trio每次站上舞台，他们心中都已经有一个概念，一个关于他们大致想要呈现什么的想法，而且每一次都不同。这就是为什么他们从来不会演奏那些爵士乐里现成的曲目，那种四五分钟或者十来分钟的。他们演奏的是组曲，一首就45分钟！
Another thing is the trio never played just for the sake of playing. For example, well, musicians who play New Music they can play with each other. They have never seen each other before. They get together and they try to create something. But The Ganelin Trio, every time they got on the stage, they had a concept, a main idea of what they wanted to do and every time this idea was different. That’s why The Ganelin Trio didn’t play songs. They didn’t play short compositions like in jazz, for four or five minutes, or maybe ten minutes. They played suites. One song, 45 minutes!
（观众发出笑声 laugh from audience）
Yeah, that was a good laugh. I’ll tell you another story.
有一回The Ganelin Trio在一个欧洲的音乐节上表演。同台的有一位身材健硕的美国的黑人小号手，名叫Ted Curson。他被安排在The Ganelin Trio之后上台演出。他上前问道：“你们要演奏几首曲子呀？”他们回答：“就一首。”Ted Curson听罢便发出了大笑：“哈哈哈！就一首！”于是，当The Ganelin Trio演完了他们的那整整45分钟的“一首歌”，离开了舞台，轮到Ted Curson上台开始演奏的时候，一半的观众都走掉了！这可是我亲身经历，亲眼所见的。
Once The Ganelin Trio performed in some festival in Europe. And one American black musician, the trumpet player, Ted Curson, a big guy. He was supposed to play after The Ganelin Trio. He asked Ganelin Trio, “ How many songs are you going to play?” And they said, “Only one.” And Ted Curson was like “Ha-ha-ha, one song!” So The Ganelin Trio played their one song, 45 minutes, then left the stage. Ted Curson got on the stage started playing, half of the audience went away! I witnessed it, I saw it my own eyes.
后来有一次The Ganelin Trio去伦敦表演，我带他们去了著名的Ronnie Scott’s爵士俱乐部。我们走进去，碰巧Ted Curson也在。他也发现了我们，而后起身大喊：“大师们！”
The Ganelin Trio came to London to perform and I took them to the famous Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club. We came into the club, there at one table, Ted Curson was sitting. He saw us, and he got up and said, “Masters!”
So, about one song, there was always an idea. They played the suites, they have, I don’t know, twenty, thirty, forty suites… every time their suite is different. Well, I produced maybe 10 of their CDs and of course every time, it’s different. For example, one of the idea they had was… on the piano, there is a chord called D major. So the idea was to make this chord and hold it for the whole performance, for 45 minutes and to let this chord through all the permutation of rhythms, tonality, harmony… you know, but it was still one chord there all the time, but all the surrounds were different.
Or for example they had a CD called “New Wine”. And this title came from a jazz standard which says “Old Bottles New Wine”. The bottle is like the form of the song, but the content is different every time. And it all depends on the audience, depend on the climate, the temperature, on their mood… So, I met one person in London, that was when I released the LP “New Wine”. It was announced that before the performance they would play a composition called “New Wine”. On the LP, there was a long solo by Chekasin. A beautiful saxophone solo with developments, fantastic. So they played this “New Wine”, the composition. When they finished, there was this man, who came to me, he was crying, “I’ve been waiting for that solo!” And we said, “Which solo?”
This idea illustrates to you what it means to play new, to make it new every time they played. Now your question!
听众2 Audience 2：
This video is new to us, but I believe that you must have watched it for several times. How do you feel this time? Is it different from before?
Everything is different, from the beginning to the end!
听众2 Audience 2：
Is there anything that you become familiar with? I mean, for a normal song, I can at least remember something, but for this video, I can’t memorize anything, because there were so many instruments. And sometimes I don’t feel any rhythm at all! So I want to know, how do you feel about it when you watch it again and again and again?
Well, I’ll tell you. Because I have seen many of their performances. I was brought up by their music. Of course if you listen to their performance only once or twice, you can’t tell the difference. It’s only when you have heard many performances then you can say “Wow!”. But what is special about their music is that when they start playing, during the first 15 minutes usually 10 percent of the audience would leave, but those who survive to the end, by the end of it they would say: “Yes! We understand what they were trying to do!”
我给你举另外一个例子吧。在音乐家之间有一个常用的演奏方法，就是把一首既有的曲子不断地解构，分解成更小的、一个一个的部分，你知道，直到最后归于虚无。但The Ganelin Trio不这么玩，他们有一张CD叫做《Ancora da Capo》，大意是“开始的开始”。当你一开始听的时候，你听到零碎的声音，但你完全摸不着头脑；渐渐地听下去，你会感觉越来越熟悉，尽管你还是不知道那具体是什么；随着音乐继续，直到最后，你会发现，那是阿根廷探戈！他们一直在演奏阿根廷探戈，但是他们并非始于解构，而是重构。从无到有，一个声音一个声音地建构，最后出来，阿根廷探戈。这就是一个关于他们演出的想法的例子。
I’ll give you another example. It is a very well known approach. Musicians they play a theme, they play a composition, and they try to deconstruct it, they break it into smaller, smaller, smaller parts, you know, until maybe there is nothing left. But The Ganelin Trio, they have one CD called “Ancora da Capo”, which roughly means “begin from the beginning”. So you start listening to it and hear sounds, sounds you don’t quite understand. And then as you listen, you realize this is something familiar. You don’t know quite what it is but it’s familiar. As the music progresses, when it comes to the end then you realize, that’s Argentinean tango! They were playing Argentinean tango, but they started not with deconstruction, but with reconstruction. From nothing, sound by sound by sound, and then there are Argentinean tango. So there’s an example of what the idea they had when they were playing.
听众3 Audience 3：
I have a question. First of all, I want to share my feeling for the music. Just now, I think it was astonishing, wild and surprising, very powerful and brave. I love the trio very much and I’m very looking forward to tomorrow’s show, although I’m the staff.
I think New Music just leaves us space to feel and think. And it also reflects what kind of people we are. And I think this is a very amazing thing about this kind of music.
Yes! Yes! Very well said, darling. New Music leaves you a lot of room for your own fantasies. It doesn’t say it all, but it gives you a chance to imagine more, to think about it, while ordinary jazz doesn’t give you this opportunity. Well, we can see it, to enjoy it. It’s entertainment. It leaves nothing for the mind. That’s why what I’m looking for is, again, the balance between mind and heart, rational and feelings. So I think that the strongest music is when you have this balance.
听众3 Audience 3：
Thank you. I know you have curated the Leo Records Festival and I also saw some clips of the festival. Many musicians were jamming on the stage and it looks like they were friends for many years, but maybe it’s their first time to stand on the same stage. I think this is also a very amazing part of this kind of music, of your Leo Records.
I agree. Thank you very much!
听众3 Audience 3：
I have read your article. You wrote in your record document complaining about that there’s not much money to support the musicians, not much money from the government, or any foundation. Is it still the same today? How can you keep on like this?
With great difficulties. (laugh) With difficulties, that’s it.
听众3 Audience 3：
So，really thank you very much for what you’ve done!
文本信息 Text Information
来源 Source：讲座录音 Recording of the lecture
编辑 & 翻译 Editing & Translating：李奇 Archie，尹思卜 Midori Yin
校对 Proofreading：陈力思 Johannes Chan